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Old 03-21-2008, 02:40 AM
luckitri
 
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Warning! Christian Post re Prophecy

Old but still very interesting (JMO)

Why I Believe Jesus Will Return To Earth During My Lifetime



by Irvin Baxter Jr.


Endtime Magazine


July/August 2001



What would it take to convince you that Jesus will return to earth during your lifetime? Would three fulfilled prophecies do it? Would five? Seven? Nine? How many?

Please indulge me for a few minutes while I briefly explain why I am absolutely convinced that Jesus will return to this earth during our generation.

Rebirth of Israel

There is no greater prophetic fulfillment. The nation of Israel was driven from her land in 70 AD. For almost 2,000 years, the Jewish people existed without a homeland; yet, while being sifted through the nations, they retained their identity. The low point came between 1940 and 1944. Hitler was determined to implement his "final solution." When Allied soldiers entered the Nazi concentration camps, they were horrified by what they discovered. Six million Jews had been gassed, shot, tortured and cremated.

In 1944, if you had told the soldiers that opened these camps that the Jewish people would have their own nation and would become the premier military power in the Middle East by 1967, they would have thought you were crazy. But that is exactly what happened.

The most amazing thing about all of this is that it was prophesied over 2,500 years ago. The prophecy of Ezekiel 37 is called Ezekiel's bone yard. Verse 12 states: "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel."

The last part of this prophecy states that it will come to pass in the latter days, just before the battle of Armageddon. It is at Armageddon, that Jesus returns to earth.

Drying up of Euphrates

The prophecy of Revelation 16:12 has lain quietly for almost 2,000 years, virtually defying fulfillment. It declares that the mighty Euphrates River will be dried up at the time of the battle of Armageddon. But who is kidding whom? The Euphrates is the principal water source of the entire Middle East. This is like prophesying that the Mississippi River will be dried up! This Euphrates prophesy just appeared to be impossible.

At least it did until the shocking headline appeared on the front page of the Indianapolis Star, January 13, 1990. It read, "Flow of Euphrates To Be Stopped For 30 Days."

The article explained that Turkey had built the huge Ataturk Dam. Thirty days would be required to fill up the newly constructed reservoir. So the Euphrates was temporarily stopped.

The river is flowing again now. However, as of 1990, the mechanism is in place that can stop the flow of the Euphrates at will. The prophecy states that, at the time of Armageddon, the flow of the Euphrates will be dried up to facilitate the invasion of Israel. It will really be very simple. Just push the button, raise the dam, and the Euphrates stops. But remember, its only been possible since 1990!

An economy run by numbers

Revelation 13:17: "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

The prophecy simply states that, during the endtime, everyone will need a mark or a number in order to participate in the economy. How could such a system possibly be implemented?

Until recently, it couldn't. Only since the invention of the computer and the advent of the Internet, has the fulfillment of this ancient prophecy been remotely possible.

Now it is becoming commonplace to see article proposing a cashless society. Who hasn't been prevented from using a credit card because of forgetting a PIN number (personal identification number)? Experiments are already being conducted with using eye scans, face scans and fingerprints for proof of identity. Positive ID has become so necessary in a world that increasingly does business "online."

The new money of Europe, the euro, has been in use for over two years. Millions of euros are traded every day. And yet to this point, physical euros do not exist. All transactions have been electronic - cashless! Euro notes and coins will be introduced in January 2002. Can a cashless society work? Europe has proven that it can. Between on-line transactions and the use of smart cards, the technology presently exists to set up a cashless society. The only blockade is public acceptance. How long will it be before society is able to get used to it?

The Bible is crystal clear that the prophesied economic system will be implemented during the final three and one half years before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Never possible before . . . . . . totally possible now!

Most of the prophecies of the Bible are written in symbols.

Only four or five give the literal name of a person or a place. Two of these special prophecies appear to have come to pass during the last fifteen years.

Chernobyl

IN Revelation 8:10-11, John saw what he described as a star falling from heaven. He said the name of the star was called Wormwood.

ON April 26, 1986, the worlds' worst ever nuclear explosion occurred. The Chernobyl nuclear power plant located in the Ukraine malfunctioned, releasing ten times as much radioactivity into the air as was released at the bombing of Hiroshima in World War II. So far, 125,000 have died as a result of the accident.

The nuclear cloud created by the Chernobyl explosion was carried by the winds into Europe. The resulting nuclear rains filled the rivers of Europe with the nuclide Cesium 137. People who drank the water or ate food touched by the water ingested the deadly nuclide. Doctors and scientists estimate that over 2 million people are presently infected by Cesium 137, which ultimately results in cancer.

The Ukrainian word for wormwood is Chernobyl. If we were reading a Ukrainian Bible, the passage would say, "the name of the star is called Chernobyl."

Saddam Hussein

Revelation 9:1-11 prophesies a time when smoke will come out of the bottomless pit. The sun and the air will be darkened by the smoke.

When Saddam Hussein was forced to withdraw from Kuwait in 1991, he wreaked his vengeance by setting 700 of the world's richest oil wells on fire. As a result, the sun was not seen in the area for the next three months. At noon, it was as dark as at midnight.

IN this apocalyptic vision, John saw what he described as locusts coming out of the smoke. Only these were not ordinary locusts. He said that the locusts had breastplates of iron, the faces of men, and their stings were in their tails. John heard the sound of these "locusts." He said, "the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle." Does this sound like a description of a modern helicopter to you? It does to me! Remember that John had never seen a helicopter. He was merely attempting to record what he saw in his vision.

The most incredible part of this prophecy is verse 11, "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. Both Abaddon and Apollyon mean "the destroyer." Many translations of the Bible literally say - They had a king over them whose name is the destroyer.

Why is this so important? When Saddam Hussein was born, his mother decided to name him Saddam because the name means "the destroyer." She did this because her pregnancy had been so terribly painful.

The one who was over the darkening of the sun and the helicopters participating in that war, is called "the destroyer."

Coincidence? You really think so?!

China War - 200 million man army

In summary, the prophecy says that an army of 200 million will trigger a war that will kill one-third of the world's population-two billion people. Of all the prophecies, this one is by far the most ominous! No matter how we twist and turn its message, it still states that one-third of the world will be destroyed. But who will ignite this horrible prophesied holocaust? The Bible describes an army of 200 million. Has there ever been an army of 200 million on the face of the earth? Most nations don't even have a population of 200 million-let alone an army!

The alarming news is that a nation has made the boast that it can field an army of 200 million. The late leader of China, Mao Tse Tsung, bragged that he could field an army of 200 million soldiers. The 1999 Fact Book, put out by the CIA, stated that China had 198 million men of military age (15-49). That number went over the 200 million mark as of the year 2000.

A prophecy that never before could have been fulfilled can now come to pass at any time. Since the Saddam Hussein prophecy happened at the sound of the 5th Trumpet and the China War will occur at the 6th Trumpet, it is obvious that this terrible event is the next major item on God's prophetic calendar.

Knowing this, we realize how very dangerous the present conflict between China and the United States actually is!

World army to invade Israel

Zechariah 14:2 states that all nations will come against Jerusalem to battle at the time of Armageddon. Throughout the 2,000 years since this prophecy was given, people have wondered how all nations would be able to gather at Jerusalem.

Only in recent times has it become apparent how this prophecy will be fulfilled. Beginning with the Gulf War in 1990 - 1991, the worlds trouble spots have been dealt with by the forces of the World Community. When conflict arises somewhere on the globe, the United Nations passes a resolution to solve the problem. Any faction that does not bow the knee to the World Community runs the risk of invasion by the International Forces. So we understand that every single nation on earth may not be present at Armageddon, but the forces of the World Community representing the United Nations will be there. Within the last month, the UN Security Council voted on a resolution to send soldiers into Israel to deal with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Only a veto from the United States stopped the UN from moving against Israel.

This failed vote was a precursor to one that will succeed. Whether the United States will decide to allow international intervention in the Middle East or whether UN reforms result in the abolishment of the veto power, we don't yet know. But somehow a UN resolution against Israel will be allowed to pass. Result - Armageddon and the Second Coming.

Great tribulation in Judea.

As Judy and I stepped onto the bulletproof bus at Jerusalem's Central Bus Station a few weeks ago, the prophecy of Matthew 24:15-21 kept running through my mind. Jesus had said that those living in Judea would suffer great tribulation during the times immediately before His Second Coming. Bus #170 would take us out to Beit El (Bethel) in Judea, referred to as the West Bank by the media.

During the one-hour ride north of Jerusalem, we circled around Ramallah where the brutal lynching took place a few months ago. I couldn't help but look at the thick double glass covering the bus' windows, wondering if it would really stop a sniper's bullet.

But the thought foremost in my mind was the prophecy. Two-thousand years ago, Jesus had prophesied about this time and the danger that would engulf this specific area. Here we were, in 2001, traveling through the area only because we were shielded by the bullet-proof bus. And to think that the worst is yet to come! An article recently reported that a plan already exists for the Palestinians to overrun the Judean settlements when the time is right. I came away from this unique experience, knowing that I had glimpsed a preview of the Great Tribulation, and it wasn't pretty! Another compelling sign that we are living in the end-time!

Taken alone, most of these prophetic fulfillments might be able to be explained away as coincidental. However, there is a question that sincere, thinking people must ask themselves . . . At what point does coincidence end and divine providence begin?


P.O. Box 2066, Richmond, IN 47375


Internet: endtime@endtime.com


www.endtime.com

1-800-endtime
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:38 AM
luckitri
 
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I am interested in how above matches or does not match prophecy in other faiths. As noted earlier on prior threads, this does dovetail well with Hopi prophecy, however most Native American prophecy removes them from the fear of prospective suffering - their prophets basically told them that if they honor the old ways (their religion seems to pervade all daily activities and that is why some of the tribes cannot separate the old ways and call it a religion because it is a way of life - correct me please if I am wrong here.) Anyway the ones I am aware of - the prophets told the people that they would survive if the honor the old ways.

Also, in my ignorance, I was unaware that any of the trumpets had sounded, especially not that we are already at the time of the 6th trumpet as per above writing.

Alot of the on-line movies that have been shared with me in recent months find fallacy with Christian teachings or Christian teachings perverted tied up with governments. The idea given is to throw it away (Christianity.) Yet the prophetic accurateness cannot be denied so learning what to toss and what to keep is important to me. Thus why I am interested in comparative religion.
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2008, 08:26 PM
luckitri
 
Posts: n/a
Another Mystery or Two

When I first heard about the Shroud of Turin;

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23742885/

I just totally believed it.

Then I heard about Jesus' coffin being found;

http://preacherpages.net/2007/02/24/...in-been-found/

and I totally fell for that one too.

The prevailing thought is that you cannot have both miraculous occurrences - the Shroud proving Jesus' death and Resurrection AND a coffin for the same Jesus who lived a normal life and died like an ordinary man of his time.

I certainly have not read everything available on these subjects but maybe both are still true. Maybe Jesus was crucified, did die, did get Resurrected and then did come back in a new body, yet recognized by the ones he loved and continued to live out his life and got buried with a coffin? Why not?
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Old 03-29-2008, 01:18 PM
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4Freedom 4Freedom is offline
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Hmmm...interesting.
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  #5  
Old 03-29-2008, 03:33 PM
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FirstGarden FirstGarden is offline
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Originally Posted by luckitri View Post
Maybe Jesus was crucified, did die, did get Resurrected and then did come back in a new body, yet recognized by the ones he loved and continued to live out his life and got buried with a coffin? Why not?
Because, if we are to believe the biblical record, after He was resurrected, He was seen by a multitude of witnesses - over 500 - and then was ascended to the right hand of the Father. After His ascension, there is no known record of His having lived out a normal life on earth. Only in fanciful novels like Chariots Of The gods (Erich Van Daniken).
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Last edited by FirstGarden : 03-29-2008 at 08:13 PM.
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2008, 03:39 PM
luckitri
 
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I so need to find my Bible.
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  #7  
Old 03-29-2008, 07:54 PM
mybodymyself mybodymyself is offline
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For me I'm on the fence on this and etc. Born and raised in The Roman Catholic Church, but weren't wasn't forced onto my sister and me. Still at the same time we had to attend CCD of course and receive all sacraments up to now and most likely receive them until our deaths. Pretty much now I feeling I'm leaning more Paganism, but not sure what form it is.
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  #8  
Old 03-29-2008, 08:28 PM
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FirstGarden FirstGarden is offline
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Jessicca - Sadly, the Roman Catholic Church has done more damage in young minds regarding God & Christ than perhaps any other entity. It grossly misrepresents the faith of the historic Gospel. It replaces a beautiful, internal, spiritually-imparted life with a man-made religion, a mere code of externals and duties. It replaces a happy and relaxed RELATIONSHIP with one's creator with the religion of man - which can sometimes be dark, ugly and hypocritical.

Personally, I am an Independent, neither Protestant nor Catholic. Nor would I be anti-Catholic, as I love people from all sectors. And to this day, there are some very beautiful people who remain within the confines of Catholicism - who are in the system but not of it. The great saints of history - Francis of Assisi, Aquinas, Anthony of Egypt, Teresa of Avila, Fenelon, Guyon, Michael Molinos (contempory of the mystic Quietist movement whose book - The Spiritual Guide - turned Europe upside down and he was imprisoned and forced to recant) ... these were among the more known of these exceptions. Many of them, like the prophets of old, were persecuted, killed then later sainted.

The word "Catholic" is actually very beautiful. It means "Universal." It's where Romanism comes in that things get all messed up, thus the Protestant reformation under Luther, which, though far from perfect, played a huge role in bringing about a reformation-based society in Europe, the English bloodless revolution and the civil aspects of the American revolution. In saying this, we are not referring to ridiculous human extremes like wars, theocratic witch hunts and the earlier crusades, which might be thought of as a sort of Islamic-Christian Jihad (struggle.) All such nonsense does not represent the true religious faith of anyone.

And then sadly, people begin to imagine that religion is at the root of all great conflicts. Historically, that would be incorrect. But it also sidesteps an even deeper question. Since when are the non-religious non-violent?

We are a very diverse community here. RFC is a gentle forum and what we like to call a fammunity. A warmest welcome to you. God bless you, whatever way you decide to go - be it paganism or the personal God - Jehovah Yahweh. It is always my encouragement that we be processors and not concluders in most areas of life, keeping our hearts open in order that we may receive more light. That is a critical prerequisite for finding Truth. And this journey can be a very beautiful thing.

Blessings,

~fg~
__________________
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How long can you print money?


Last edited by FirstGarden : 03-30-2008 at 01:42 AM.
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  #9  
Old 03-30-2008, 12:25 AM
luckitri
 
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Well said as always FG.

Since I was not raised with any religion, (well maybe atheism), I have failed to grasp many of the nuances between sects of the Christian faith that others were taught as children. You know, back in the day when it was a horror to marry someone from another sect of Christianity. Also religious history is still spotty in my mind. But life taught me that there is a spirit world - spiritual world, contrary to how I had been raised and so I chose Christianity since that is the strongest element in the culture I find myself in.

I have visited the Roman Catholic church quite a few times over the last 30 years and at first I was an atheist being forced to go and I found it offensive. The repetitive response of the congregation was like brainwashing to me yet it is more participatory than many churches. In recent years I see value in the repetitive as when one is in a crisis I think it can really help to have some answers.

For a couple of years my son's sitter was a Catholic woman and she would take kids all hours of the day and night - very rare. When it was time to go to church she would just take all the kids with her in her van. She was an old woman, child of very poor dirt farmers, yet she really thought about her religion and studied it all the time and I found her to be a delightful person and a pleasure to learn from. She was very special in that she could get even the wildest children to mind without ever raising her voice or getting in the least bit flustered. Also years ago I had opportunity to do business with some local nuns. They were all older and some were even high school principals and university professors. Once again, they were absolutely delightful people to do business with and people tried to steal them away from me as they were good customers. They were wise to it and didn't fall for it which I did not expect - I was impressed. I have to say that my interactions with people very strong in the Catholic faith have been much better than with other Christian sects. With people of other Christian sects we have been repeatedly ripped off, as in had our business stolen, personal possessions stolen as well as been victims of vicious unfounded gossip as a means of stealing our business by first discrediting us. Ditto the people of other faiths. It has gotten to the point where if anybody even mentions their faith I believe that they are trying to establish credibility through their religion since they haven't any of their own - and now I stay away. (I don't mean on this forum - I mean in life - in business.)

I have seen bad in the Catholic church locally. Some has been in the news. But certainly no worse than with any of the other branches of Christianity.

Paganism is such a broad term. All I know is that whenever I have explored with other faiths beyond the big ones - I do not get solid answers. It seems to just be a huge mish-mosh that opportunists interpret to serve their own gain.

Years ago some people I knew tried to get me involved with the Japanese Buddhist church that was sweeping across the nation like a wildfire. They took me to a service where a priest from Japan was coming to speak. We were inside but there were hundreds of people who could not enter the building because so many were interested. Out of all the people in there, when the priest walked down the aisle to leave he reached out to me and gave me some kind of blessing. (He didn't speak English.) Instantly everybody around me reached to touch me - I didn't understand it. Were they trying to take my blessing? Trying to get some invisible good imparted to me from the priest? That seemed kind of primitive to me and turned me off. Then I am just obstinate by nature I suppose. I told them that I was not comfortable repeating words in another language that I have no knowledge what they mean. They kept trying to reassure me that it was like magic and would pay off for me anyway. I did try it and when in the temple with hundreds of others there is an interesting resonance that goes on in your head with all those voices vibrating your brain cells - I thought that might have some direct physical healing aspects to it. But if I really wanted to understand it I was directed to buy lots of very expensive hard cover books that were very thick and I really was not interested. I just don't think that religion should be expensive to learn and practice.

I have been invited to dinner parties and the like, only to find myself in a pagan ceremony or meeting. I was extremely uncomfortable on one occasion and actually feared leaving too soon as I did not want to offend them yet being there was torturous to me. The fact that I was invited to a dinner and not informed of the true nature of the event turned me off instantly. What were they thinking?

Mostly of all the spiritual services and ceremonies I have been to I must say I find them tedious and boring, especially the Christian ones where the pastor spends so much time "relating" by talking about his personal family, the local sports scene and so on - and about two seconds on spiritual meat.

Last edited by luckitri : 03-30-2008 at 12:28 AM.
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  #10  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:37 AM
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FirstGarden FirstGarden is offline
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"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-
Mohandas (Mahatma) Gandhi
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  #11  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:45 AM
luckitri
 
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Interesting. I have been finding information that Jesus traveled and was known as "Saint Issa" in India.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:55 AM
mybodymyself mybodymyself is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstGarden View Post
Jessicca - Sadly, the Roman Catholic Church has done more damage in young minds regarding God & Christ than perhaps any other entity. It grossly misrepresents the faith of the historic Gospel. It replaces a beautiful, internal, spiritually-imparted life with a man-made religion, a mere code of externals and duties. It replaces a happy and relaxed RELATIONSHIP with one's creator with the religion of man - which can sometimes be dark, ugly and hypocritical.

Personally, I am an Independent, neither Protestant nor Catholic. Nor would I be anti-Catholic, as I love people from all sectors. And to this day, there are some very beautiful people who remain within the confines of Catholicism - who are in the system but not of it. The great saints of history - Francis of Assisi, Aquinas, Anthony of Egypt, Teresa of Avila, Fenelon, Guyon, Michael Molinos (contempory of the mystic Quietist movement whose book - The Spiritual Guide - turned Europe upside down and he was imprisoned and forced to recant) ... these were among the more known of these exceptions. Many of them, like the prophets of old, were persecuted, killed then later sainted.

The word "Catholic" is actually very beautiful. It means "Universal." It's where Romanism comes in that things get all messed up, thus the Protestant reformation under Luther, which, though far from perfect, played a huge role in bringing about a reformation-based society in Europe, the English bloodless revolution and the civil aspects of the American revolution. In saying this, we are not referring to ridiculous human extremes like wars, theocratic witch hunts and the earlier crusades, which might be thought of as a sort of Islamic-Christian Jihad (struggle.) All such nonsense does not represent the true religious faith of anyone.

And then sadly, people begin to imagine that religion is at the root of all great conflicts. Historically, that would be incorrect. But it also sidesteps an even deeper question. Since when are the non-religious non-violent?

We are a very diverse community here. RFC is a gentle forum and what we like to call a fammunity. A warmest welcome to you. God bless you, whatever way you decide to go - be it paganism or the personal God - Jehovah Yahweh. It is always my encouragement that we be processors and not concluders in most areas of life, keeping our hearts open in order that we may receive more light. That is a critical prerequisite for finding Truth. And this journey can be a very beautiful thing.

Blessings,

~fg~
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckitri View Post
Well said as always FG.

Since I was not raised with any religion, (well maybe atheism), I have failed to grasp many of the nuances between sects of the Christian faith that others were taught as children. You know, back in the day when it was a horror to marry someone from another sect of Christianity. Also religious history is still spotty in my mind. But life taught me that there is a spirit world - spiritual world, contrary to how I had been raised and so I chose Christianity since that is the strongest element in the culture I find myself in.

I have visited the Roman Catholic church quite a few times over the last 30 years and at first I was an atheist being forced to go and I found it offensive. The repetitive response of the congregation was like brainwashing to me yet it is more participatory than many churches. In recent years I see value in the repetitive as when one is in a crisis I think it can really help to have some answers.

For a couple of years my son's sitter was a Catholic woman and she would take kids all hours of the day and night - very rare. When it was time to go to church she would just take all the kids with her in her van. She was an old woman, child of very poor dirt farmers, yet she really thought about her religion and studied it all the time and I found her to be a delightful person and a pleasure to learn from. She was very special in that she could get even the wildest children to mind without ever raising her voice or getting in the least bit flustered. Also years ago I had opportunity to do business with some local nuns. They were all older and some were even high school principals and university professors. Once again, they were absolutely delightful people to do business with and people tried to steal them away from me as they were good customers. They were wise to it and didn't fall for it which I did not expect - I was impressed. I have to say that my interactions with people very strong in the Catholic faith have been much better than with other Christian sects. With people of other Christian sects we have been repeatedly ripped off, as in had our business stolen, personal possessions stolen as well as been victims of vicious unfounded gossip as a means of stealing our business by first discrediting us. Ditto the people of other faiths. It has gotten to the point where if anybody even mentions their faith I believe that they are trying to establish credibility through their religion since they haven't any of their own - and now I stay away. (I don't mean on this forum - I mean in life - in business.)

I have seen bad in the Catholic church locally. Some has been in the news. But certainly no worse than with any of the other branches of Christianity.

Paganism is such a broad term. All I know is that whenever I have explored with other faiths beyond the big ones - I do not get solid answers. It seems to just be a huge mish-mosh that opportunists interpret to serve their own gain.

Years ago some people I knew tried to get me involved with the Japanese Buddhist church that was sweeping across the nation like a wildfire. They took me to a service where a priest from Japan was coming to speak. We were inside but there were hundreds of people who could not enter the building because so many were interested. Out of all the people in there, when the priest walked down the aisle to leave he reached out to me and gave me some kind of blessing. (He didn't speak English.) Instantly everybody around me reached to touch me - I didn't understand it. Were they trying to take my blessing? Trying to get some invisible good imparted to me from the priest? That seemed kind of primitive to me and turned me off. Then I am just obstinate by nature I suppose. I told them that I was not comfortable repeating words in another language that I have no knowledge what they mean. They kept trying to reassure me that it was like magic and would pay off for me anyway. I did try it and when in the temple with hundreds of others there is an interesting resonance that goes on in your head with all those voices vibrating your brain cells - I thought that might have some direct physical healing aspects to it. But if I really wanted to understand it I was directed to buy lots of very expensive hard cover books that were very thick and I really was not interested. I just don't think that religion should be expensive to learn and practice.

I have been invited to dinner parties and the like, only to find myself in a pagan ceremony or meeting. I was extremely uncomfortable on one occasion and actually feared leaving too soon as I did not want to offend them yet being there was torturous to me. The fact that I was invited to a dinner and not informed of the true nature of the event turned me off instantly. What were they thinking?

Mostly of all the spiritual services and ceremonies I have been to I must say I find them tedious and boring, especially the Christian ones where the pastor spends so much time "relating" by talking about his personal family, the local sports scene and so on - and about two seconds on spiritual meat.
fg and luckitri,

Thanx for both of your responses and thats definetly interesting what fg bought up here.
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  #13  
Old 03-31-2008, 03:41 PM
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misotrue misotrue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstGarden View Post
Jessicca - Sadly, the Roman Catholic Church has done more damage in young minds regarding God & Christ than perhaps any other entity. It grossly misrepresents the faith of the historic Gospel. It replaces a beautiful, internal, spiritually-imparted life with a man-made religion, a mere code of externals and duties. It replaces a happy and relaxed RELATIONSHIP with one's creator with the religion of man - which can sometimes be dark, ugly and hypocritical.

Personally, I am an Independent, neither Protestant nor Catholic. Nor would I be anti-Catholic, as I love people from all sectors. And to this day, there are some very beautiful people who remain within the confines of Catholicism - who are in the system but not of it. The great saints of history - Francis of Assisi, Aquinas, Anthony of Egypt, Teresa of Avila, Fenelon, Guyon, Michael Molinos (contempory of the mystic Quietist movement whose book - The Spiritual Guide - turned Europe upside down and he was imprisoned and forced to recant) ... these were among the more known of these exceptions. Many of them, like the prophets of old, were persecuted, killed then later sainted.

The word "Catholic" is actually very beautiful. It means "Universal." It's where Romanism comes in that things get all messed up, thus the Protestant reformation under Luther, which, though far from perfect, played a huge role in bringing about a reformation-based society in Europe, the English bloodless revolution and the civil aspects of the American revolution. In saying this, we are not referring to ridiculous human extremes like wars, theocratic witch hunts and the earlier crusades, which might be thought of as a sort of Islamic-Christian Jihad (struggle.) All such nonsense does not represent the true religious faith of anyone.

And then sadly, people begin to imagine that religion is at the root of all great conflicts. Historically, that would be incorrect. But it also sidesteps an even deeper question. Since when are the non-religious non-violent?

We are a very diverse community here. RFC is a gentle forum and what we like to call a fammunity. A warmest welcome to you. God bless you, whatever way you decide to go - be it paganism or the personal God - Jehovah Yahweh. It is always my encouragement that we be processors and not concluders in most areas of life, keeping our hearts open in order that we may receive more light. That is a critical prerequisite for finding Truth. And this journey can be a very beautiful thing.

Blessings,

~fg~
Maybe, you should read some of Thomas Cahill's books.

Thomas Cahill is the author of the best-selling books, How the Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe, The Gifts of the Jews: How a Tribe of Desert Nomads Changed the Way Everyone Thinks and Feels, Desire of the Everlasting Hills: The World Before and After Jesus, Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter, and most recently Mysteries of the Middle Ages: And the Beginning of the Modern World. These five books comprise Volumes I, II, III,IV, and V respectively of The Hinges of History®, a prospective seven-volume series in which the author recounts formative moments in Western civilization, published in North America in hardcover by Nan A. Talese/Doubleday and in paperback by Anchor Books. In The Hinges of History®, Thomas Cahill endeavors to retell the story of the Western world through little-known stories of individuals who had pivotal impacts on history and contributed immensely to Western culture and the evolution of Western sensibility, thus revealing how we have become the people we are and why we think and feel the way we do today. Thomas Cahill is best known, in his books and lectures, for taking on a broad scope of complex history and distilling it into a remarkably accessible, illuminating and entertaining narrative. His lively, engaging writing animates cultures that existed up to five millennia ago, revealing the lives of his principal characters with refreshing insight and joy. He writes history, not in its usual terms of war and atrocity, but by inviting his audience into an ancient world to commune with some of the most influential people who ever lived. Unlike all too many history lessons, a Thomas Cahill history book or speech is impossible to forget.

How the Irish Saved Civilization tells the story—scarcely known outside of Ireland—of fifth-century Irish monks who copied and thereby preserved the great heritage of Western civilization: almost all of what has survived of Western classical poetry, history, oratory, philosophy and commentary. Published in March of 1995, How the Irish Saved Civilization spent nearly two years on the New York Times Bestseller List, attaining the #2 spot on January 12, 1997. With over 1,250,000 copies in print, its sales are increasing annually as it is being adopted into Western civilization college courses throughout the USA. It has been published throughout the English-speaking world (UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa), and in translation throughout Latin America (in Portuguese and Spanish), Europe (in Czech, Dutch, German, Italian, Norwegian, Polish, and Spanish), and Asia (in standardized Chinese and Japanese). How the Irish Saved Civilization also became a bestseller in Italy.

In The Gifts of the Jews, published in April 1998, the author illuminates how Jews essentially invented Western civilization and shaped Western consciousness today, as they were the first in human history to claim individual freedom, and to presume they could make the future better than the past. Thomas Cahill explores how Israelites gave the world a sense of history and destiny, concepts of individuality and justice, and the idea of monotheism. The Gifts of the Jews enjoyed 39 weeks on the New York Times Bestseller List, having reached its highest rank of #3 on May 17, 1998. Over 552,000 copies are in print, and it is also being adopted as a required text in Western civilization collegiate courses in the USA. It is currently published throughout the English-speaking world (UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa), and in translation throughout Latin America (in Portuguese, and Spanish), Europe (in Croatian, Danish, Dutch, German, Italian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Russian, and Spanish), the Middle East (in Hebrew) and Asia (in standardized Chinese, Japanese, and Korean). The Gifts of the Jews also became a bestseller in Brazil. In February of 1999, Thomas Cahill was the recipient of a Christopher Award for The Gifts of the Jews.

Desire of the Everlasting Hills was proclaimed by The New York Times Book Review as "a stunning success, the best of the series." Published in hardcover in November 1999 on the occasion of the two-thousandth birthday of Jesus of Nazareth, it hit bestseller lists across the United States with over 402,000 copies in print. Instantly after release, the paperback debuted on The New York Times Bestseller List at #4 on March 11, 2001. This volume brings a fresh and engrossing look at the impact of Jesus and early Christianity on the shaping of Western civilization. Again, with his unique and stimulating ability to re-create ancient times, Thomas Cahill vividly brings to life Jesus and the people who wrote about him, and offers a stunningly original interpretation of the New Testament. To date, Desire of the Everlasting Hills has been published in the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Latin America; Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and China.

Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea, was published in hardcover in October 2003. In this volume, Thomas Cahill leads a captivating tour of ancient Greek achievement, which encompasses dozens of facets, ranging from statecraft, philosophy, and architecture to militarism and science. In many ways, Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea bridges the history brought to light in the first three volumes; Greek civilization witnessed the melding of Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian traditions and the birth of a new cultural outlook that permeates the West to this day. Bringing to life the dazzling array of mythological characters and historical figures who comprise the Greek narrative, this is a rich new look at Agamemnon and Aeschylus, Sophocles and Sappho—the complete pantheon of gods and mortals whose importance is still evident in the Western landscape. Exploring the aspects of our language, laws, even our fundamental sensibilities, that are infused with the often controversial spirit which defined ancient Greece, Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea offers a magnificent new perspective on the evolution of the Western world. Mr. Cahill was delighted that Oceanida, a leading Greek publisher, chose to translate Sailing into Greek as its contribution to the 2004 Olympic games.

The newest addition to the series, Mysteries of the Middle Ages, was published in hardcover in October 2006. In the fifth book of the Hinges of History® series, Cahill turns his eye on the dawn of the modern Western world—the High Middle Ages. After the long period of cultural decline known as the Dark Ages, Europe experienced a rebirth of scholarship, art, literature, philosophy, and science and began to develop a vision of Western society that remains at the heart of Western civilization today. By placing the image of the Virgin Mary at the center of their churches and their lives, medieval people exalted womanhood to a level unknown in any previous society. For the first time, men began to treat women with dignity and women took up professions that had always been closed to them. The communion bread, believed to be the body of Jesus, encouraged the formulation of new questions in philosophy: Could reality be so fluid that one substance could be transformed into another? Could ordinary bread become a holy reality? Could mud become gold, as the alchemists believed? These new questions pushed the minds of medieval thinkers toward what would become modern science. Artists began to ask themselves similar questions. How can we depict human anatomy so that it looks real to the viewer? How can we depict motion in a composition that never moves? How can two dimensions appear to be three? Medieval artists (and writers, too) invented the Western tradition of realism. On visits to the great cities of Europe—monumental Rome; the intellectually explosive Paris of Peter Abelard and Thomas Aquinas; the hotbed of scientific study that was Oxford; and the incomparable Florence of Dante and Giotto—Cahill brilliantly captures the spirit of experimentation, the colorful pageantry, and the passionate pursuit of knowledge that built the foundations for the modern world.

A lifelong scholar himself, Thomas Cahill has studied with some of America's most distinguished literary and biblical scholars. Born in New York City to Irish-American parents and raised in the Bronx, he was educated by Jesuits and studied ancient Greek and Latin. He continued his study of Greek and Latin literature, as well as medieval philosophy, scripture and theology, at Fordham University, where he completed both a B.A. in classical literature and philosophy, and a pontifical degree in philosophy. He went on to complete his M.F.A. in film and dramatic literature at Columbia University. He studied scripture at New York's Union Theological Seminary, and recently spent two years as a Visiting Scholar at the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, where he studied Hebrew and the Hebrew Bible in preparation for writing The Gifts of the Jews. He also reads French and Italian. In 1999, he was awarded an honorary doctorate from Alfred University in New York.

Thomas Cahill has taught at Queens College, Fordham University, and Seton Hall University, served as the North American education correspondent for the Times of London, and was for many years a regular contributor to the Los Angeles Times Book Review. Prior to retiring to write full-time, he was Director of Religious Publishing at Doubleday for six years. Cahill was recently invited to address the U.S. Congress on the Judeo-Christian roots of moral responsibility in American Politics. He and his wife, Susan, also an author, founded the now legendary Cahill & Company, whose reader's catalogue was much beloved in literary households throughout the country. They divide their time between New York and Rome.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:22 PM
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Carmella Carmella is offline
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Originally Posted by misotrue View Post
Maybe, you should read some of Thomas Cahill's books.

Thomas Cahill is the author of the best-selling books, How the Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe...

How the Irish Saved Civilization tells the story—scarcely known outside of Ireland—of fifth-century Irish monks who copied and thereby preserved the great heritage of Western civilization: almost all of what has survived of Western classical poetry, history, oratory, philosophy and commentary. Published in March of 1995, How the Irish Saved Civilization spent nearly two years on the New York Times Bestseller List, attaining the #2 spot on January 12, 1997. With over 1,250,000 copies in print, its sales are increasing annually as it is being adopted into Western civilization college courses throughout the USA. It has been published throughout the English-speaking world (UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa), and in translation throughout Latin America (in Portuguese and Spanish), Europe (in Czech, Dutch, German, Italian, Norwegian, Polish, and Spanish), and Asia (in standardized Chinese and Japanese). How the Irish Saved Civilization also became a bestseller in Italy.
Oh Misotrue!!! You just sent shivers up my spine! I worked with this book back in my uni days. I was majoring in history, specializing in early Irish Church. I couldn't get enough of reading the material pertaining to the Irish monks of that period. Did you know they were the first 'missionaries'? In their eyes, there was no greater renunciation than to renounce their beloved Ireland so they would set themselves adrift in tiny little boats (sorry, can't remember the Irish name for them). I was particularly drawn to St. Columba, who later founded Iona off the coast of Scotland. As it happens, the one place in Ireland where I kept going back to over and over was in Donegal, close to where he lived back in the 6th century.

Anyhoo, so interesting this is resurfacing via this forum after all these years...
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Carmella View Post
Oh Misotrue!!! You just sent shivers up my spine! I worked with this book back in my uni days. I was majoring in history, specializing in early Irish Church. I couldn't get enough of reading the material pertaining to the Irish monks of that period. Did you know they were the first 'missionaries'? In their eyes, there was no greater renunciation than to renounce their beloved Ireland so they would set themselves adrift in tiny little boats (sorry, can't remember the Irish name for them). I was particularly drawn to St. Columba, who later founded Iona off the coast of Scotland. As it happens, the one place in Ireland where I kept going back to over and over was in Donegal, close to where he lived back in the 6th century.

Anyhoo, so interesting this is resurfacing via this forum after all these years...
Carmella,
You'll have to forgive me but I'm in a giddy mood and can't compose myself to anything of a serious nature. Must be "The Fool on the Hill" awaiting me for tomorrows pranks. All I can think of is Wyken, Blyken and Nod set off in a wooden shoe!

Maybe this will help trigger your memory.
http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.co...ir/2Index.html

The Galway Hooker
This unique vessel, with its distinctive curved lines and bright red sails, originated in the village of Claddagh. During the 19th century, hookers supported a significant fishing industry and also carried goods, livestock and fuel. Seán Rainey is remembered for building the last of the original boats, the Truelight, for Martin Oliver who was to become the last king of the Claddagh; as king, he was entitled to white sails on his boat. Since the mid seventies, many of the old sailing craft which were on the verge of extinction have been lovingly restored and new ones have been built. During the summer months they can be seen at festivals such a Cruinniú na mBád - the Gathering of the Boats - in Kinvara.
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